Work Management Tools are Becoming a Threat to Project Managers Transcript

Ross Martin: Our next topic is modern project management tools actually are becoming a threat to project managers by enabling our peers and other functions to actually manage projects themselves without us. I mean, do you think that's true?

Idris Manley: Yes, and yes, they are becoming a threat, but it's not just the project management tools. It's also the communication collaboration tools like Slack and Jabber and Microsoft Teams. I think it's making it increasingly easy for, you know, for employees to talk and collaborate and plan and basically get things done without the project manager being involved. Right.

Ross Martin: Because in the past, often, you know, one of the roles that we would play, the soft skills that we need to develop was being able to pull these different functions together and make sure that they're actually talking to each other. Yeah. Yeah.

Idris Manley: It was like sort of hub spoke. Exactly. We were the hubs, you know, PMO or the project managers, the hub and the team members, the stakeholders were, they were the spokes. And so all information and, you know, Microsoft project, you know, for those of you that remember Microsoft project, That was really you know, that was our tool that contained all of the important information and all that information And so they had to collaborate with us so that we could sort of maintain and manage They didn't even have it installed and they didn't want it They wouldn't they would just have us do it You would create PDFs at most where they could exactly or put them into a PowerPoint but I remember even being in a situation where I would think I

Ross Martin: Why do I need to make sure that the product lead and the engineering later talking to each other? Hey, have you guys met each other? Can you please have a conversation? Yeah And so yeah, it's with modern tools actually are making that much easier Both the collaboration and work in project management as well

Idris Manley: Yeah, it's certainly not making us obsolete, but it definitely is making it easier for stakeholders to be able to plan, collaborate, execute without much need for a hierarchical or a hub-spoke sort of approach to getting work done.

Ross Martin: Yeah, but see, here's the thing that I don't understand. As these tools have gotten better over time, I and a lot of other project managers look at that and go, this is great. This is going to make my life so much easier to manage my team. I don't have to chase people down as much to statuses and to make sure that they're doing what they're supposed to doing. The tool can do a lot of that for me. It makes my life and my job easier. But that can also mean that I'm not as needed as I once was.

Idris Manley: It's interesting, I come from the client-server world. Microsoft Windows and you know, and you had all of your tools your Microsoft Office suite in addition to Microsoft Project and you know, and so I Understand the Gantt chart and how to create complex, you know, you know project plans very well and I'm very accustomed to you know when initiating and planning projects knowing how to gather information and to create scope and to put together really awesome, amazing Gantt charts to support that. But having said that, I really, I don't want to say struggle, but it was hard for me to really transition to the sort of the cloud-based, you know, project management tool sort of era that we're in now, right? Whether it's Asana or Wrike or Monday. I was really slow to that party. And I can remember having different direct reports and different people that I worked with that were much more familiar and much more comfortable with those tools than I was. And I struggled to really put my finger on why until some time of reflecting on it, and I realized that those tools were too simplistic. Coming from MS Project, I was accustomed to the complexity that it offered me to support in terms of how you create baselines and how you were able to really define all of these complex relationships. And I realized that a lot of these modern cloud-based project management tools, which now, again, like Monday and others, they refer to them as work, force management tools and project management tools all the time, oftentimes, but they were really designed specifically to reduce the complexity, the perception of complexity. And so they really have spent a lot of time from an R&D perspective, really understanding how to create these tools in a way that they're not overwhelming, and they present the ability to manage projects in a much more simple way and even the branding sort of really sort of moving away from referring to them as project management tools and instead we're referring to them as workforce or work management tools is another way of trying to brand it in a way that makes it easier for departments to feel comfortable being able to manage projects themselves.

Ross Martin: Well, and what's interesting is I'm sure that you've experienced this as well as a PMO leader is I've had to turn away people asking for a project manager to help support their project, right? Because we're all allocated towards higher priority projects. Yeah, we're busy. Yeah. busy and there's just no capacity. And the frustration for an operational leader, I can think of, where he was looking for somebody to help plan a project when he wasn't that familiar with the discipline of project management. He didn't really know what to do and everything. And at the time, again, not being a little naive and not thinking of these as a possible threat to our profession, in any way, thinking, well, hey, these newer cloud-based modern work management tools could help someone like that manage his own project, while we're focused on more important things. And not seeing that over time, more and more as these get better, that that they're going to realize and are realizing that basic, straightforward projects don't need a professional on them anymore. The tool can do the job. And I still think there will always be a place for some project managers for much more complicated, cross-functional, multi-discipline program type management, which touches lots of different areas, it's very hard for a tool to replicate that. But you maybe no longer need a 20 person PMO, you might need a six person PMO.

Idris Manley: Yeah, I mean, if you look at, you know, across all, you know, companies that I've worked at, if you look at the portfolio of project work, you probably, it's probably maybe 60-40, or 60% of that work is the more simplistic sort of variety. It's not terribly cross-functional. It doesn't have significant risks. It may even be projects that are semi-repeatable, where maybe they performed the project similarly, and so they understand the template, or they understand sort of the core aspects of what's required to successfully complete it. And then the other 40% maybe is, or 30% is of a more complex variety, where It is cross-functional. It does have certain risks that need to be managed very thoughtfully and carefully. Or maybe it's critical and strategic to the company and they need that level of oversight. Or maybe it's just that the size of the project is such that it just needs project management support. And so there is a significant number of projects that we probably don't need necessarily support, but I think that the collaboration tools certainly makes it easier. I can think of more than one PMO, or in particular, there's one PMO that I was asked to create where historically, the project management team was looked at as being more tactical. And there were questions around their value contribution, and so I was brought in to really sort of redefine and sort of to remake and sort of shift the perception of project management at the company. And so I recall several things that I did to do that, but every quarter before the quarter began, I would meet with the various department heads and try and understand, OK, what are your goals for the quarter? What are the projects? How can we help, et cetera? And I remember many conversations around, we need you guys for this. We don't need you for these other things, and this is why. And I realized, I noticed how that was becoming more and more the case, where there were more and more instances of projects that they felt comfortable managing themselves. And they were very specific ways or in areas that they thought that we could make an impact.

Ross Martin: So one of the things that, one of the concerns that I have about this, so let's say, you know, we get to a point where functions can, simple projects, as you described them, can be handled using the tools, and then you need some project managers, some experienced project managers to help with the really, the most difficult programs and initiatives. But how does a new project manager grow into an experienced project manager if they don't get to cut their teeth on the straightforward projects to get to that point? It feels like the on-ramp to the career could get short-circuited.

Idris Manley: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And if you consider AI as well, performing a lot of the project coordinator sort of, you know, activities, it becomes even more difficult to make that leap if you have no project management experience. And so, yeah, I mean, fortunately, not every company is adopting these tools in quite the same way. Not every department is adopting these tools in quite the same way. It'll all take time anyway. Yes, every department has a different sort of makeup in terms of how they view those tools and where they feel project management can support and not. And so hopefully with that, they will find opportunities despite the fact that these project management tools are becoming more widely adopted. But yeah, that will be a challenge for certain early stage project managers to really find opportunities where they can really kind of cut their teeth and get that experience that they need to be able to make a broader impact in their career.

Ross Martin: So yeah, as we said, tools is another part of the squeeze on the project management profession. They are getting better, and they are enabling people outside of project management to manage their own projects, or at least the simpler ones. And that gives a little less opportunities to project managers. in the traditional sense.

Idris Manley: Yeah, but there's still opportunities abound. We can still make an impact. We have to look for areas that are more critical to the business, understanding the strategy, being able to understand the strategy and understand strategic initiatives and goals that are needed, and to be able to carve out new opportunities based on your understanding of where the company is going and where there may be need.

Ross Martin: Right, and then understanding, getting more of a domain knowledge around how your company operates, the different functions, if you work regularly with sales leadership on some of their initiatives. Get to go on ride-alongs with some sales folks, understand sales better, understand sales operations better, become a valued person to have around. They realize that you get their discipline, that you understand the domain of what they're dealing with, and so that makes you a more valuable contributor and makes the interest in perhaps what they're willing to have you take on increase over time and your contribution can grow.

Idris Manley: Yeah, and then there's agile. We're continuing to become more agile, so there's plenty of opportunities on the agility side. Agile, in a sense, is certainly a more decentralized approach to trying to get things done, more collaborative, more peer-to-peer. And so there's always a need for someone to help to make sure that those pieces are working together in the most optimal manner. And so there's plenty of opportunity, but again, It is evolving, and so it's important to understand how it's evolving and where to focus your energy and efforts to make sure that you are on the positive side of the shifts that are happening. Exactly.