The Project Management Profession Under Threat Transcript (Part 2)

Segment 3: Practical Advice for Project Managers to “Embrace Leadership”

Ross Martin: So Idris, our next topic is an interesting one. We've read a number of articles about the impact of AI on project managers. And one of the things that we've noticed is they're encouraging, like we do, project managers to take on more leadership roles in order to deal with the impact of AI on project management and the threat of it. I mean we encourage the thing and we encourage the same but but what I found on some of these things we've looked at is is You know it vague or even no information about what exactly that means It they'll say that you want to be less tactical, but they don't give any practical advice on how to be less tactical and or just any practical advice at all, really. It just says, you wanna be, embrace leadership. And then you're like, thank you for that input, but I don't know what to do with this. So I thought it might be worth us talking a little bit about what sorts of specific things that a project manager who is trying to be less tactical can do to be less tactical, and what exactly that means.

Idris Manley: Yeah, I think part of the challenge is it's just a muscle that we haven't really worked sufficiently, nor have the individuals that are sort of sharing that knowledge encouraged, oftentimes to the degree that was needed, to really encourage people to really work that particular muscle. And so I think we're A lot of people are really starting to understand that they're being forced to now really figure that out. Now we're trying to figure out the language and exactly how that needs to be performed in actionable ways.

Ross Martin: Yeah. I think that one idea of adopting more of a leadership persona As a project manager, and I this is something that I experienced around the time that I was making director is Really Changing your mindset from being a support role and a servant to to the people around you. So a lot of times as a project manager, you might be a project manager on a project and everyone else in the room is way more senior than you are. In fact, it's very common to be the least senior person in the room. And so it's tricky because you feel like you need to defer to these folks who are much more senior and have a lot more experience. And it's important to realize that you are the owner of the project. You're the person who understands the project at the total level as well as anyone and to take on a I'm-in-charge-of-the-project sort of mentality around the people around you. That doesn't mean be a jerk about it or anything, but certainly you are not there to just take notes and schedule meetings for sure.

Idris Manley: Yeah, I know, I agree. As I think about it, I think there are different levels of leadership. I think there's certainly the level, there's sort of the project level leadership, which we all as project managers have been told and are familiar with, which is you said servant leadership, being able to understand how to manage a group of stakeholders within the context of a single project or program. But then there's organizational leadership. There's really operating, being able to understand the art and science of leadership outside of the span of a project, but really across an organization, across a company, and understanding what that entails and what that looks like. And while there are certain skill sets that can carry over from the product leadership level, There are a lot of new things that you have to learn as well when you're talking about how do I become a successful leader, interfacing with executives, interfacing with very senior individuals, interfacing with various people across various departments and business units. How do I actually command and earn the respect and trust as a leader at that level? And you're gonna find that you're gonna have to, everything that you learned about leadership at the project level, while it still applies, you're gonna have to learn some additional skills to be successful. And you find that the project managers that tend to sort of break through senior project program level roles and into director, senior director, VP, they figure that out.

Ross Martin: And they're successful in that way. That's a good point. You know, I think that one of the most important things to do is to have a healthy curiosity and a desire to understand other people's roles and their stresses, the things they're concerned about, to be able to virtually put yourself in their shoes. When you're more junior, that's harder with, say, the C-level executives. But it still helps if you really take an interest in understanding some of your peer functions. And then as you move up, really understanding what it is the stresses and pressures are on and what these people's jobs are all about and that sort of thing.

Idris Manley: It's EQ. Yeah. You're describing having a certain level of emotional intelligence and being able to really empathize, understand, being curious and being able to empathize and understand in a way that you can be more effective. You can be more effective as a servant leader.

Ross Martin: Yes, EQ and also domain knowledge. So there's putting yourself in their shoes from a standpoint of what it's like to be them and the stresses they're under. But also, if you're going to be working on a project closely with finance people, learn their stuff.

Idris Manley: Well, yeah, domain knowledge. Well, that's how you build trust and credibility.

Ross Martin: Yeah. Do you understand what a financial planning and analysis person does on a day-to-day basis? And why the cycles, the financial cycles, all the way they are and the words and all that kind of stuff. I remember working at one point after having never really worked very closely with legal, at some point or another I ended up working on a project with some legal folks and got a really good understanding of what it was like to be in their domain. But also I was interested in it and that helped a lot in them wanting to work with me because Sometimes, you know, in certain functions like legal, people are like, oh no, legal, right? And the reality is that's not the way that, you know, they are performing an incredibly important function in our companies. And so respecting them and taking an interest in what they do, I think really helps a lot in changing the narrative.

Idris Manley: I agree. I couldn't agree with you more. I think the worst thing that you can experience as a project manager is not understanding a domain and attempting to command the audience or to lead a team where they know that you don't really understand the domain. I think that you find that that happens. That's very common in engineering and product. teams where the domain is of a technical type and you have a, whether you're a scrum master or a project manager and you're trying to lead a team, and sort of help drive them to the finish line or help them work through whatever issues or blockers they may be experiencing, but you just don't understand what they're trying to resolve. But you're attempting to try and use similar language and you're trying to give that impression, but they don't know. And I think that's a really tough position to be in because a lot of times they will give you side eyes or they may… Or they may just ignore you. And it can make it really challenging. I've seen project managers really struggle in those contexts. And they find themselves marginalized and really only able to take meeting notes or able to do very sort of mundane tasks because they're not being invited to certain meetings that they're having because they can't really contribute. Or if you're asking certain questions, they don't really want to answer it because they don't feel like you're wasting their time trying to engage in certain ways. And so to your point, I think it's important to really understand domain.

Ross Martin: Yeah, I've seen, uh, I've seen situations where the person, it's very clear that the person is asking person a for status so they could put it onto a report and pass it off to person B with no addition, like verbatim, no value added at all. And I had a boss a number of years ago who kept saying like, we have to constantly add more value than we take. So, um, yes, you have to ask people for status.

Idris Manley: That's great. That's great feedback.

Ross Martin: Yeah, you have to ask people for status and other things that annoy them. But if you can make their lives easier and you can enhance what they're doing and that sort of thing. So sometimes what I would do is I sometimes would get to the point once I had enough domain knowledge is I might write up for them and then all they have to do is edit really quickly the bits that maybe I didn't quite get or the nuance they wanted to make on something. You know that kind of thing where you're you're actually doing some of their work to make their lives easier And then so for me, I you know, I have a computer science degree.

Idris Manley: So I you know, I have a technical yeah, you know sort of you know discipline, but what I would do is I would actually try and Again, empathizing. I'm saying a domain put myself in their position. I would try and I understand some of the considerations that perhaps they hadn't thought of. And so, you know, I would actually ask certain questions or certain prompts to challenge and to, in ways that weren't sort of wasting time, but were really thoughtful and logical and were fair questions to ask. And so even if I didn't always get it right, I think they respected the effort. They respected the fact that I was being sincere in my contribution. Even if I didn't know all of the details and all of the particulars about the domain, it showed that I was committed to learning it and understanding it and being a value-added contributor, outside of just taking notes or trying to add value to status reports.

Ross Martin: One of the things that I found that really makes a big difference is… watching what the executive sponsor does when she or he is asking questions of the various leads. So your executive sponsor may not show up to all your different status meetings, but the fact is is that What types of questions are they're asking? What are the things they're concerned about there? You know, they're often they're worried about making sure that the business outcome is on track that we're gonna deliver that we Anticipate problems and get ahead of them and we're not surprised executives do not like to be surprised as we all know and So and one of the things that in in assuming leadership that the project manager can do is is you know represent what the executive sponsor would be asking questions about or Probing when they're not even there or in some cases when they are there I've had I had a situation a number of years ago when I was more junior and where after one of these meetings, the executive sponsor pulled me aside and said, thank you, it's really refreshing to not be the only person in the room asking questions of the team leaders. Usually what would happen is the team leaders would come in and they'd present their status to the VP and the VP would ask questions and then they'd have a dialogue and everyone else would sit there quietly with their hands on their laps and the project manager would just write down stuff.

Idris Manley: Actually, it reminds me. I think one of the best values or contributions that a project manager can make is really not… How can I say this? Oftentimes, when you try and figure out new ways of adding value, they won't necessarily be proposed or suggested. You will actually take a risk as a project manager. following your instincts and your gut. You will oftentimes find to your point that the risk or your instinct was correct because you will inevitably have people that come to you, that pull you to the side and say, I'm glad that you said that, or I'm glad that you asked that, or I'm glad that you changed how we were doing this. So I think it's really important as a project manager to really understand the significance of really having your own point of view, and really be anchored in a point of view that is really sort of rooted in how can I add value, how can I make everyone's lives more effective, more efficient, more productive, et cetera. And you will find that if you are taking risks that are anchored in those areas, you will oftentimes come out on the winning side. even if no one initiated or asked you to make that change or to come up with that idea. And so I think it's really important to be thoughtful in that way and to be willing to take risks at the right times.

Ross Martin: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Executives and other leaders will not necessarily explicitly tell you when they want you to do some of these things, but when they see you do them, sometimes then they'll make a point of remarking on that they're really pleased with something. One of the things I think you know, as a little more senior person, being able to embody the senior executive in the room when they're not there. But as a more junior person, one of the other things I thought that was a really good leadership lesson and that helped was realizing that for certain really critical to the project meetings that you do not assign these two people to go off and have this meeting. You, as the leader of the project, you schedule it yourself and you make sure that it successfully reaches its outcomes. And without having to be told which things are the ones that you should basically assign to yourself to make sure that they happen successfully. And that, I've also got good comments on that as well when I figured that one out too.

Idris Manley: Yeah, and I think back to the meeting notes and taking your status reports rather. All status reports aren't created equal. You have status reports where it really is just a verbatim of what the teams accomplished or what they did over the previous week or the previous period, etc. And there are status reports that are written in a way that they really are offering a lot of high-level value. whether you're really sort of talking about the risks in a way that is really enlightening and insightful or you're able to really sort of quantify activities in a way that they can be measured and you can really speak to how the previous week's worth of work has contributed to the business goals and the outcomes. I would certainly encourage project managers to really if they understand the business goals and outcomes that the projects are trying to impact, to figure out how to frame their statuses in a way that they can show measurable value and contribution over the course of the life of the project towards achieving those business outcomes. I think that's one of the probably the best ways that you can frame statuses and try and provide high value.

Ross Martin: Once I figured out that I shouldn't actually pass through any individual status at all, up the chain, right? All of the input that came in on statuses from my various track leads were for me to use to help create the real status report, which was considering the business outcomes, the risks, what do the senior leaders need to know? And what are your thoughts?

Idris Manley: And what are my thoughts about it? So you're reviewing all of their information, but what is your perspective? What do we recommend that we do about it?

Ross Martin: What's your point of view? Exactly. You're right. And that made a huge difference in realizing that that's the way it works. The other thing that I found around statuses that helped endear me a little bit more to my project and my team leads was somebody, for example, couldn't make the meeting you know, that sort of thing. And then I'd say, well, hey, you know, let me either have a quick little meeting with you for 10 minutes on the phone, and I will represent you in the meeting and speak on your behalf. Let's have a conversation so I'm ready to talk about what you would have talked about. And so then they're like, great, thank you very much. So that's the other thing is, now, that can be dangerous, because if everybody starts to do that, then all of a sudden you're having a team meeting with your own self, or you're having individual status meetings with 15 people separately. But the idea in general is to make it so that you're trying to make people's lives easier. and better. And the other thing that I always did, this is a good lesson for everybody, of course, in every job, is always give credit to all the team members for all the good stuff. and never specifically call out anyone on anything that was not so good, but focus instead on that something's happened, and what are we gonna do about it? But constantly giving praise out to the senior leaders of the team members, and then that information would get back to them, and then they'd realize that you just said a bunch of good stuff to their boss.

Idris Manley: Absolutely. Those are definitely words to live by.

Ross Martin: Yeah, exactly. So those are some more practical project management leadership at different levels, things that you can do to expand behaving more like a leader.